Hi Edwin

No, I did not get one vote. As far as I recall I got 8 votes. I subsequently re-uploaded the image on the front page to thank people for voting for my image 'Early Morning Winter Sun' and something went wrong because when I went to the competition folder, the image was missing. I emailed Alan and Mario and they rectified the position and they also posted a message with their explanation of what had happened on my image page. No I definitely did not receive just one vote, I am sure it was 8.

Best...

Eugene

For completion sake, the link below verifies my explanation.

Best...

Eugene

I could not imagine just one vote being cast! LOL. And although I really did not expect an explanation (nor did I mean to insult you and apologize if I did), it is nice to know why one vote shows as being placed.

Now, as to the question, why do you think there is so little participation here?

Following the above posts I got curious and re-visited all the competition folders. I may be incorrect here and please let me know if I am, but I seem to recall that there were two co-winners of the Magazine Shots Competition - i.e., Del Kimbler and Laurens Smak but I notice the latter has a zero score on his image 'Thierry Mugler jewelry'. I notice too that 'Zguy' refers to Laurens as being a co-winner here at this link http://www.myfourthirds.com/document.php?id=2750

Please let me know if what I say is inaccurate and apologies in advance if it is so.

Best...

Eugene

hi, at the end of august i became member of "our"fourthirds. i vote at the summer-fun-competition for the first time. givin ratings to every picture. some pics got a high rating, some a not so high. generally i vote for pics i like. in my opinion it is possible that there is a good picture, but i don't like it. so sometimes i vote for pics i don't like. i don't vote for pics which don't talk to me. sorry. it difficult to me to verbalize my opinion to a pic. i like it or not (or its just good but i don't like it). also don't like to say: oh its a good pic but too much noise or maybe you cut here or crop there and so on. i'm a friend of less words ;) i'll continue to vote/rate/comment in my sense. and i would like to thank to all members rating/comment my pics. regards michel

sorry for bad english or bad photos !

Hi Edwin

No offence taken at all. I think it is good that you are raising this issue and asking questions. Proper order!!

The issue of the lack of participation is something that bugs me on and off. I completely respect the rights of members to participate or not as of their own choosing but sometimes I feel a little impatient that so few actively join in and I agree wholeheartedly with Edwin's post.

I know when I joined up at first, I felt I knew very little about photography and so I'd better keep my mouth shut for fear of making a fool of myself!! Now I don't worry about making a fool of myself!! Seriously though it took a while for me to feel confident about commenting and also to figure a way of rating that is fair and consistent with the ethics of judging and fair play. Perhaps their are those who have or are going through this kind of thing??

I find it highly educational and enjoyable to visit other photographer's work (see my progress, now I refer to myself as being amongst this group!) and I have learned so much through participation, commenting and rating and in turn, this process being visited upon my own work. I also expect it of myself to comment on other peoples work when they have gone to the trouble to post. I don't do this on everyones work as I don't have the time but I do try to do the best I can.

I am mystified why so many don't engage at this level. I don't think shyness fully explains why so many don't get involved. Shyness can be overcome. I cite myself here as an example.

I think people will get involved actively if A) they want to, B) they expect it of themselves to do so and C) they feel able to do so. I also observe that this dynamic of active and passive participation occurs in all groups. Some people are happiest in groups being a silent participant and that feels a safe place to be for them.

The site needs people to be actively involved if it is to be an ongoing, interesting, enjoyable learning environment and viable service to its members.

The group of people who are doing this at the moment is too small. More people are needed. Come aboard all of you who are on the sidelines. At least say something about why you choose not to be involved more actively. Do you like it when people comment on your images?? I am often struck by images that I comment on and no reply comes from the photographer. I wonder do they want me to comment? Does my comment have any impact? Should I continue to do this?

In relation the the competions, I would really like it if people who have not entered would rate images. I think that would introduce a healthy balance into the proceedings.

I have a concern that the replies you may get may be from those who regularly contribute and the ones you really want to hear from may not reply. I hope I am proved decisively wrong on this point.

Keep up the questions and raising issues Edwin!!

Best...

Eugene

Valid points all!

Simply stated, if people are shy because "I'm not good enough" or "I don't know enough" or "I am just a beginner!", or for any similar reason, then frankly... that is not good enough. LOL. Let me explain.

I was fortunate to have studied photography in the 1970s. Thanks to Professor "Bernie" Freemessor at the University of Oregon, I have met a lot of American photographers with whom he was friends. Anybody and everybody famous in photography would stop to see Bernie on their travels. Ansel Adams, Brett Weston (a LOT!), Imogine Cunningham, Jay Dussard, Wynn Bullock, Peter Gowland, W. Gene Smith, and others did stop by from time to time. (Actually, I came to the program near the end of Bernie's life, so listened to a couple of these on tape.) Most of these people were fine b&w artists with a philosophy directly from Group ƒ64. You don't know this group? You may read the Group ƒ/64 Manifesto here. http://www.slonet.org/~mhd/1intro/f64.htm

We talked, lived and breathed photography. I never once heard any famous "good" photographer discount anybody's opinion about a photograph. In General, people agreed on what a good image was, but there were lively discussions! What is learned in these discussions is remarkably valuable to the learning process.

So everyone, please participate more in discussions and ratings. Everyone's opinion is valid... well, unless you get really mean and unfair. Honesty and fairness are good guidelines.

Well said Edwin. That hits the nail fair and square on the head.

Best..

Eugene

I suppose I could have predicted such underwhelming response, but one hopes...

• sigh*

I meant to say three of us. Sorry!

i participate in a few other communty and there is always a problem a few people do comment a lot, others don't. the winners of competitions and rankings are almost the same. most people only like to share their pictures without feedback to others. don't ask me why. i think the most only want to present images at the web for a reason i didn't know. so how many menbers are registered and how many members share their pics and how many comment/rate others pics? i know a community called fotocummunity.de. there are thousands and thousands of photos and also members BUT if you go to the forum (its german) there are only a few fighting their nikon vs canon wars. really. its the most stupid forum i've ever seen. the other communtiy i know, oly-e.de is the best i've ever seen. no stupids, all honest and helpful. you can get a panorama-angle, an mini-manual (a printed version of the pdf, ~10x15 cm) and so on. there is also a little english section (oly-e.com). so i hope my4/3 will become an able communtiy for us in the future. i will participate furthermore. i agree to Honesty and fairness are good guidelines regards michel

Why did you say, "Coincidentally, I went away when you opened this thread"?

Michael an John both make good points.

I think one great thing about this site is that we are not all professionals. There are many sites devoted to pros, and I would hope that this one would be different from many of those pro sites in tone and content. What makes this site unique is that it is devoted to a format, not to a level of expertise. The cost of the camera keeps people that are not serious about photography away, but the cost is not so high that serious amateurs and week end shooters can't afford it.

How can we change participation? What can that "core" group of red and pink hearted people do to encourage more participation? Should we make a point to comment upon every image?

Honestly, I don't want anyone to feel intimidated to contribute opinions and photographs, and I don't think the site owners do either. This is a unique place and in my opinion can only be made better by photographers of all levels learning from each other.

I will help in whatever way I can to increase participation in this group. You all mention things I honestly had not thought about, so thank you all for your thoughts.

What did you mean by "along with a more flexible use of the marking"? I hesitate to give low scores to what may be a person's best effort so far. I don't think doing so encourages the photographer to either improve or post more images. On the other hand, some very high scores are occasionally (and very occasionally) undeserved in my opinion. Nery low scores can be seen as mestructive as far as encouraging creativity. It is a fine line I think between being seen as mean, or as inflationary.

"Nery low scores can be seen as mestructive"

Should read as...

Very low scores can be seen as destructive

I’ve followed this thread, but as I’m one of those pink hearted usual suspects, I thought I would wait before writing something. ;-)

The other day I noticed that quite a lot of the members here have not posted photos at all. Many have also posted only a few pictures a long time ago. I have the impression that most of those who have posted photos since I first registered some weeks ago are active when it comes to writing comments (and I’m very impressed with you red hearted people).

Maybe we expect too much? Maybe we have the impression that there are more active members here than there really are? Sorry for constantly referring to the Norwegian photo site I post at, but that site has 30.000 registered users, 400 posted pictures a day and 2.000 comments a day. Most members are restricted to post only two pictures a week. This would be 2.800 pictures a week and 14.000 comments. If we make it simple (probably too simple) we can divide 2.800 pictures with two per person and say there are 1.400 members being active every week. 14.000 comments divided by 1.400 users would be ten comments written by the active members per week.

I don’t know how many comments you write a week, but I definitely have the impression that the average among the active members here are far more than ten comments a week. So those who are active, are very active and give a great contribution to the site.

There are almost 26 full pages of members here. 20 on each page. That adds up to 520 registered members. If there are 20 active members here that would be 4 percent of the registered members (compared to 5 percent at the Norwegian site). So perhaps the question is not “why don’t more members participate”, but “why are there not more members”. :-) (Well, the answer to that is obvious – there aren’t all that many E-1 users compared to photographers with Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Minolta etc.)

I too have been discouraged at the lack of participation by the many members that MFT now has registered. Often a serious comment /critique is made to the photographer and a return response is never given. One wonders if the critique is important to the individual or not. This hardly encourages the individual to take the time to comment.

I most value the response that doesn't just tell me if the image is liked or not, but why the photo is either good or bad. This helps me to improve my picture taking skills. I find the short 'comment' of little use because it doesn't enable me to get better at my craft. This too can be disheartening because what we look for is an honest critique of our work so that genuine improvements can be made.

As for scoring individuals low, I don't think that this is at all unfair or discouraging to the person who is looking for an honest appraisal of their photoghraph. Of course the low score MUST be accompanied by an explanation. To say that the work is poor and to give no good reason seems, at least to me, to be highly unfair.

In closing I would like to entreat those that are are a part of the MFT community to share their insights and opinions, because they REALLY do make a difference to the person seeking to improve. You don't have to have years of experience or even know how to use a camera to make a valid observation about the photos appearing on these pages, so why not give it a try for the benefit of all?

Kindest regards,

I too hope for more participation which enriches us all.

I joined this community yesterday, so I hope you find some of my comments useful.

I haven't posted any images yet (more later) and this will be the first time that I have posted anywhere. This is a big step for me. I'm potentially putting myself in the firing line, but I appreciate that I'm only going to improve with some constructive critiscism and need to bite the bullet. I guess that quite a few of the members/potential members will feel the same.

I'm an amateur of only a few years experience, first with the E20 and now the E1. I am learning as fast as I can, but I do not feel qualified to comment upon others images, at least not from a technique or composition point of view. Any comments I make will be, most likely, emotionally based (maybe that is the real test of a good image).

There are a number of issues with the site that make it difficult to contribute. There is no forum as such, at least nothing entitled forum. I'm replying to the original post using the comment button - I don't know if this is correct and it took a while to work out that it might be. In other words it is not as easy to contibute as you might imagine.

As far as posting images is concerned, I don't know how to and there is no "obvious" help available - so how do I post images?

Please do not take my comments as entirly negative. I wouldn't have joined if I didn't think it worthwhile. I think this is a very good site and its nice to see that there is no "my camera is better than yours" discussions.

Apologies for "war and peace" in my first contribution.

I look forward to posting some images once someone explains how.

Regards to all

Gid McLean

Hi Gideon, Finally someone has asked the question "How do I post images?" I have only recently joined the ranks myself & would like to participate & possibly post some images, but like yourself can't work out how to...

As a recent convert to the E1 I am still 'playing' but I must say it is definetly one of my better buys (I previously owned the Nikon D100 but I was not impressed)

Jak Harrison

..I am trying...but I cannot get the sizing thing down...I have done the "no more than 900 on the longest side of the pic"...and dropped the ppi...I just can't get a "bigger" pic to come up....I will keep trying however! Oh, and in response to this remark from M. Cowles about Markus' shot.....this is an artistic place as well as pics of the next door neighbors dog....so I vote for Markus....and hooey on that negative comment....D. Pitts